Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/03/1994 09:05 AM Senate CRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
February 3, 1994
9:05 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Randy Phillips, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman
Senator Al Adams
Senator Fred Zharoff
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Robin Taylor, Vice Chairman
OTHERS PRESENT
Senator Steve Rieger
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 203
"An Act requiring unified municipalities to provide police
protection and law enforcement services; and providing for an
effective date."
SENATE BILL NO. 255
"An Act establishing a comprehensive policy relating to human
resource development in the state."
SENATE BILL NO. 2
"An Act requiring pay equity for certain public employees and
requiring the compensation of certain public employees based on the
value of work performed."
SENATE BILL NO. 39
"An Act relating to credited service and retirement benefits."
SENATE BILL NO. 232
"An Act relating to reimbursement of bonds issued for school
construction; and providing for an effective date."
SENATE BILL NO. 233
"An Act relating to state aid for education."
SENATE BILL NO. 62
"An Act relating to the public school foundation program; and
providing for an effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 203 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated
11/3/93, 1/13/94, 1/20/94, 1/25/94, 2/1/94.
SB 255 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated
1/25/94, 2/1/94.
SB 2 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated
11/3/93, 1/11/94, 1/18/94, 1/20/94, 1/27/94,
2/1/94.
SB 39 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated
1/27/94, 2/1/94.
SB 62 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes
dated 2/18/93, 4/1/93, 4/6/93 (a.m. & p.m.
minutes), 4/16/93.
SB 232 - No previous action to record.
SB 233 - No previous action to record.
WITNESS REGISTER
C.E. Swackhammer, Deputy Commissioner
Department of Public Safety
P.O. Box 111200
Juneau, AK 99811-1200
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SB 203
Richard Weinig
800 E. Dimond, Suite 3-620
Anchorage, AK 99515
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes SB 203
Duane Udland, Deputy Chief
Anchorage Police Dept.
4501 S. Bragaw
Anchorage, AK 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 203
Barbara Weinig
P.O. Box 113849
Anchorage, AK 99511
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports Senator Rieger's
version of SB 203
Maribeth Brown
14960 Sierra Way
Anchorage, AK 99516
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes SB 203
Josh Fink, Staff to Senator Tim Kelly
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SB 203
Tom Evans
Alaska State AFL/CIO
1689 C St., Suite 204
Anchorage, AK 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Suggested changes to SB 255
Daniel Middaugh
1822 W. Northern Lights, #305
Anchorage, AK 99517
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 255
Roxanne Stewart, Staff to Senator Jim Duncan
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SB 39
Gary Todd
44690 Wooden Lane
Soldotna, AK 99669
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 39
Janet Parker
Bob Church
Division of Retirement & Benefits
Department of Administration
P.O. Box 110203
Juneau, AK 99811-0203
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SB 39
Joan Wilkerson
Alaska Pubic Employees Association
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 39
Dr. Clark Damon
1101 First St.
Douglas, AK 99824
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 39
Carol Carrol, Staff to Senator Jay Kerttula
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SB 232 and
SB 233
Duane Guiley, Director
School Finance
Department of Education
801 W. 10th St., Suite 200
Juneau, AK 99801-1894
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes SB 232 and SB 233
Ell Sorenson, Superintendent
Mat-Su School District
125 W. Evergreen
Palmer, AK 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 62 & SB 233
Marilyn Leahy
P.O. Box 689
Valdez, AK 99686
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes SB 62
Becky Chapek
P.O. Box 1564
Cordova, AK 99574
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes SB 62
Larry Wiget, Director of Government Relations
Anchorage School District
4600 Debarr Road
Anchorage, AK 99519
POSITION STATEMENT: Questions on SB 233
Donna Emerson
Funter Bay, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 62
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-9, SIDE A
Number 001
The Senate Community & Regional Affairs Committee was called to
order by Chairman Randy Phillips at 9:05 a.m. He brought SB 203
(MUNICIPAL POLICE SERVICES) before the committee as the first order
of business, but stated that after taking testimony on the bill, it
was his intent to hold the bill to see what action the House of
Representatives takes on the floor on a similar piece of
legislation, HB 18.
C.E. SWACKHAMMER, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Public Safety,
stated that of the three different draft committee substitutes on
SB 203 before the committee, the Department of Public Safety
supports the version that takes the approach recommended by the
Task Force on Governmental Roles (Work draft 8-LS0626\D), which the
department believes is the best public policy. It would allow
assemblies in a unified municipality, notwithstanding provisions in
the home rule charter, to establish, operate, alter, or abolish a
service area to furnish police protection and law enforcement
services.
Speaking to Senator Rieger's proposed committee substitute (Work
draft 8-LS0626/M), which would continue trooper police protection
to the Hillside and Girdwood areas, Deputy Commissioner Swackhammer
said presently, the Anchorage Post spends slightly more than 60
percent of their time in response directly to the Hillside/Girdwood
area at a current cost of $1,940,663.64. It has been the position
of the Commissioner of Public Safety to withdraw troopers from
urban areas which are authorized to provide police protection on
their own, and to concentrate the department's resources in rural
and unorganized areas of the State.
Number 150
SENATOR RIEGER pointed out that the department has some suggested
amendments to his version of the bill: a time period longer than
three years to allow for personnel planning; a gear-up process for
recruiting additional troopers; and a ceiling of one trooper for
each 1,000 people in the municipality.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER SWACKHAMMER added that the department would
like to see Section 3 deleted because it would not provide the
commissioner any flexibility in determining the appropriate number
of troopers for an area. The department also suggests some wording
changes to better define what the costs are.
Number 196
SENATOR LEMAN asked what the effect would be on Section 2 if
Section 3 is deleted. SENATOR RIEGER answered that Section 3 was
intended as a fall-back position in case an agreement couldn't be
reached, and deleting it would not have an effect on Section 2. He
stated that he is confident that there is a reasonable full-cost
proposal that can be put forward. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER SWACKHAMMER
added that Section 2 also allows the department some flexibility
because the residents get charged for what services are provided.
Number 250
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS opened the public hearing on SB 203 to
witnesses waiting to testify at the Anchorage Legislative
Information Office.
Number 260
RICHARD WEINIG, an Anchorage attorney, a member of the Rabbit Creek
Community Council and a Hillside resident, said under the Rieger
bill and taking the figures drawn from the department's position
paper on it, 60 percent of that cost for the actual trooper
services and 30 percent of dispatch would be paid by the service
area. He said that is a revenue generator for the state that he
thinks would be particularly attractive to the Legislature.
Mr. Weinig said Commissioner's Burton concern that there would be
a loss of local control over police protection is a very small
concern with the citizens of Anchorage because a majority of the
ordinances are "flatland ordinances" that have no concern
whatsoever for the Hillside.
Mr. Weinig voiced his concern with Senator Kelly's proposed
committee substitute. He said for the Legislature to legislatively
dictate that a portion of the Bill of Rights of a charter is null
and void is very poor public policy, and such an abrogation of the
Bill of Rights, after the fact, is dishonorable.
Concluding, Mr. Weinig said it is much better public policy to let
those who seek services pay for their services and those who do not
want services to be let alone by government.
Number 369
DUANE UDLAND, Deputy Chief, Anchorage Police Department, said in
previous hearings on this issue, it has been suggested that the
department was not professional or was not up to the task of
providing police service to the Hillside. He said he has the
highest regard for the Alaska State Troopers, and there are more
similarities than there are dissimilarities between the troopers
and the police department. The Anchorage Police Department has a
lot in common with the troopers in the areas of training and
advanced schooling.
Deputy Chief Udland stated the quality of the officers at the
Anchorage Police Department is very high, and the issue that the
Anchorage Police Department is not professional "does not hold
water." Also, policing in a rural area is no different than
policing in a city area - it is the same value system and it is the
same laws.
Concluding his comments, Deputy Chief Udland said Commissioner
Burton and Deputy Commissioner Swackhammer are making decisions
based on public policy and what is best for their organization.
Although Anchorage is a good place to be working and living in, he
doesn't think the committee should place any weight on the fact
that maybe some of the troopers don't agree with the decisions of
the trooper administration.
Number 465
BARBARA WEINIG, President, Rabbit Creek Community Council, spoke to
a recent survey she sent out to 5,000 property owners. The survey
showed that the respondents are willing to pay more taxes, but they
want trooper coverage. Senator Rieger's bill allows the residents
of the upper Hillside to get used to paying for police protection,
and it contains a sunset provision at which time the residents
could make a change if they decided they wanted something
different.
Number 490
SENATOR RIEGER commented that there is a citizenry that is willing
to organize themselves and pay for a service and, in contrast,
there is a management problem where there are attempts by
management or by the governing body itself and not the populace to
say "No, we don't want to let you choose the service you want and
pay for the service you want. We want you to do something else
which we think is best for you." He said this is a very classic
confrontation between a good government solution to an issue in the
area he represents and a bad government solution. He added this
has nothing to do with willingness to pay for a service; it has to
do with paying for the service that they want.
Number 506
SENATOR ADAMS requested that a copy of the survey sent out by Ms.
Weinig be provided to the committee.
Number 515
MARIBETH BROWN, a Hillside resident and Chair of the Southeast
Anchorage Police Protection Task Force, said that elected officials
should be extremely cautious about taking a position that they know
what is best for the people. The people in Southeast Anchorage,
the Hillside, Turnigan Arm and Girdwood have expressed very
strongly what their preferences are, and that needs to be taken
into account on this issue.
Number 538
SENATOR ZHAROFF said he would like to have seen more of a response
to these types of surveys so that some decisions could be made
based on the surveys. He said if this is a major problem, he
would have expected at least a 50 percent response from this area,
particularly if we are going to continue with state funded
protection. SENATOR RIEGER responded that there is a high level
of concern and that with this type of survey a 20 percent response
was really good.
Number 570
JOSH FINK, staff to Senator Kelly, quoted figures from the April
1993 election which showed that the 46.2 percent of the lower
Hillside wanted to join a police service area, 53.8 percent did
not. He said as you go up the hill, 33.7 percent wanted to join a
police service area, 66 percent did not. In the Turnigan Arm area,
27 percent want to join a police service area, 72 percent did not.
Number 575
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS closed the public hearing on SB 203 and
stated it would be back before the committee the following week.
Number 578
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS brought SB 255 (STATE POLICY ON HUMAN
RESOURCE DEVELOPMT) before the committee as the next order of
business.
TAPE 94-9, SIDE B
Number 001
TOM EVANS, Anchorage, representing the Alaska State AFL/CIO, made
some suggested changes to the legislation. SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS
requested that Mr. Evans' suggested amendments be faxed to his
office.
Number 020
DANIEL MIDDAUGH, Anchorage, stated he is working with the statewide
apprentiship and training coordinators association and they want to
add their support to the passage of SB 255. They feel this is very
important for the State of Alaska, that there is a major resource
of young people, mainly in the Bush areas, that are not getting the
help that they deserve.
Number 042
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS closed the public hearing on SB 255 and
stated that the bill, along with proposed amendments, would be back
before the committee the following week.
Number 046
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS brought SB 2 (PAY EQUITY BASED ON VALUE OF
WORK) before the committee, and stated that he would entertain a
motion to adopt the committee substitute.
SENATOR LEMAN moved that CSSB 2(CRA) be adopted. SENATORS ADAMS
and ZHAROFF objected. The roll was taken with the following
result: Senators Leman and Phillips voted "Yea" and Senators
Zharoff and Adams voted "Nay." The Chair stated the motion to
adopt the committee substitute failed and that the bill would be
back before the committee the following week.
Number 063
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS introduced SB 39 (RETIREMENT CREDITED
SERVICE & BENEFITS) as the next order of business.
ROXANNE STEWART, staff to Senator Jim Duncan, informed the
committee that they were unable to get a fiscal note on the
amendment to SB 39 they had proposed the previous week because the
Governor's office does not provide fiscal notes on amendments that
have not been adopted. She noted that the Division of Retirement
& Benefits has provided a letter relating to the effect of the
amendment.
Number 080
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS stated the committee would take testimony
over the teleconference network.
GARY TODD, Soldotna, a permanent seasonal employee of the Alaska
Department of Fish & Game, said there are a lot of people that work
during the summer on a number of different jobs, and some of these
people have been working for 14 to 16 years. Many of these people
are not vested in the retirement system even though they have spent
a lot of time working seasonally along side permanent people who
have all the benefits. He would like to see these people credited
with this time and at a reasonable cost.
Number 120
JANET PARKER, Division of Retirement & Benefits, Department of
Administration, explained that the actuarial cost would be
different for each individual because it is based upon their salary
and how much time the individual is buying. SENATOR LEMAN added
that while it might seem like a large amount to be paid by an
individual, the potential for recovery is excellent.
Number 145
JOAN WILKERSON, Juneau, Alaska Public Employees Association, voiced
support for SB 39. She said in 1980 the definition of "seasonal"
or "temporary" was changed to "nonpermanent." This dealt with an
inequity where previously, seasonal employees could not buy into or
get credit for the years they had put in. SB 39 would cover people
who put in seasonal work in the sixties and seventies. She added
that if the same rights were afforded to people from 1980 on, it
would seem appropriate to apply them to people who have been loyal
and faithful workers to the State of Alaska in the previous two
decades.
Ms. Wilkerson noted that when the same legislation was before the
Legislature two years ago the Division of Retirement & Benefits
didn't see it as a cost, and she questioned why there is fiscal
note on the current bill that shows a cost.
Number 215
SENATOR PHILLIPS asked what conditions changed in two years so that
they are now showing a cost to the system. JANET PARKER answered
that this Administration decided that they would not present a bill
to the Legislature with a zero fiscal note if they truly believe
that there wasn't one there. At one point they said that there is
no cost because it's all within the retirement system, and they
presented the bills that way. This Administration has decided that
if there is going to be a cost, no matter how big or small, the
bill has to have a fiscal note.
Number 250
DR. CLARK DAMON, Juneau, said he would be affected under the public
service provision by combining the two retirement programs. He
said if he paid the $50,000 which he would be required to pay to be
eligible for the program, he would receive $237 a month, plus a
$306 health benefit allowance. Projecting his costs out, it would
take him 19.5 years to recoup his money.
Number 275
SENATOR LEMAN requested that he be provided with calculations for
some of these typical people who may choose this, showing how much
it will cost and how long it takes to recoup the cost. SENATOR
PHILLIPS suggested that the bill would be moving to the State
Affairs Committee, which is chaired by Senator Leman, and that
information could be provided to his committee.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS stated his intent to move SB 39 out of
committee without the amendment because it lacks a fiscal note.
Number 330
SENATOR ADAMS moved that SB 39 and the accompanying fiscal notes be
passed out of committee with individual recommendations. Hearing
no objection, it was so ordered.
Number 345
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS introduced SB 232 (SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION BOND D
REIMBURSEMENT) and SB 233 (STATE EDUCATION AID: FUNDING
COMMUNITIES) as the next order of business.
CAROL CARROL, staff to Senator Jay Kerttula, the prime sponsor of
SB 232 and SB 233, explained that SB 232 will increase by $90
million the ceiling for state participation in school construction
by municipalities. There are several school districts that have
already been approved for bonding, but there are three districts
that can't go forward because there isn't any capacity left out of
the $50 million allocation. It would be more fiscally positive for
the state if this could done now because of the current low
interest rates.
Number 370
SENATOR ADAMS commented that he would like to have rural Alaska
participate in this because they have more needs than in the urban
areas of the state. CAROL CARROL responded that the $90 million
would be available without regard to the population of any
municipality. She also clarified that this does not apply to
those areas that don't have a tax base and can't go out and bond
for themselves. SENATOR ADAMS said regardless of whether there is
a tax base or not, there has got be equity and fairness in these
pieces of legislation because there are needs out in rural Alaska.
Number 400
Ms. Carrol explained that SB 233 takes out of regulation the
ability of the Department of Education to waive or delete or add
funding communities at their own discretion by putting the
definition of "funding community" into statute. Senator Kerttula
believes that this will enable the Legislature to review any change
that the Department of Education would like to make that would have
a fiscal impact on some of the school districts.
Number 425
DUANE GUILEY, Director, School Finance, Department of Education,
speaking to SB 232, stated that at the present time the Department
of Education does not support increasing the debt limit on school
construction projects.
Through compromise legislation approved by both bodies of the
Legislature in the prior session, the department did support
reinstating school debt with a cap of $250 million of new project
principal. That $250 million was allocated to municipalities based
on size. Those allocations provided $133 million of project
principal to Anchorage; $67 million to Fairbanks; and $50 million
to the remainder of the state. The allocations expire on July 1,
1996, and at the present time there are many outstanding bond
project authorizations that have yet to be voted on by the local
voters. There is remaining capacity within the $250 million, so
the department feels it is premature to increase the ceiling, and
there is a strong likelihood that some of the money will come
available to be able to fund the remaining projects on their list
without increasing the capacity.
Number 540
Speaking to SB 233, Mr. Guiley said the position of the Department
of Education is that currently the commissioner has the discretion
in relation to funding communities and the establishment of the
funding communities and the deletion of the funding communities.
The State Board of Education has adopted a plan to phase out the
funding for very small schools in the state, and that plan calls
for the deletion or decertification of funding communities on a
five-year schedule out through the year 1999. That would increase
the minimum school size to 10. SB 233 sets the minimum school size
at eight, and the department would not be able to carry out the
plan as is currently approved by the State Board of Education.
Decertification this year will save the state $754,000. Based on
funding communities that are scheduled to be decertified in 1996 or
1997, the savings would be another $988,000. SB 233 would
grandfather in those funding communities and the state would
continue to fund $6,637,000 in additional state aid to those
funding communities that are exception to the current regulation
and proposed statute. Mr. Guiley stated the Department of
Education does not support SB 233.
Number 600
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS stated SB 232 and SB 233 would be held until
the following week.
Number 605
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS brought SB 62 (PUBLIC SCHOOL FOUNDATION
PROGRAM) before the committee and stated that testimony would be
taken over the teleconference network.
ELL SORENSON, Superintendent, Mat-Su School District, testifying
from the Mat-Su LIO on SB 232, stated their district continues to
have serious crowding problems so they favor a bill that will put
more money out there to build schools. He added they are very
sympathetic with rural schools that may not be included in this
legislation and they would support them being added.
Mr. Sorenson also stated support for SB 233, although he did
recommend a small change to it.
TAPE 94-10, SIDE A
Number 001
Mr. Sorenson, commenting on SB 62, said they have some serious
reservations with the reduction that it makes to schools with 25
students in average daily membership. Doing away with some of
these schools and providing education through other strategies may
prove to be equal to a greater expense.
Mr. Sorenson said the Mat-Su School District would like to go on
record as maintaining the status quo and improving the level of
funding for schools as opposed to taking large dollars out.
Number 055
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS requested that Mr. Sorenson fax his
suggested changes to SB 233 to his office.
Number 060
MARILYN LEAHY, a school board member in Valdez, stated the board's
opposition to SB 62 and their agreement with comments made by Mr.
Sorenson on the bill. The legislation could have a very negative
impact on the Valdez School District.
Number 070
BECKY CHAPEK, a member of the Cordova School Board, referred to the
section in the bill relating to the Alaska School Price Index, and
stated concern that the index may be based on historic average
expenditures of a district. By using the Alaska School Price
Index, it appears that districts will penalized and locked into low
salary positions. She also urged that the Legislature seek a
permanent solution to the single dual site inequities that were put
in place when the foundation formula went into being.
Number 100
LARRY WIGET, Director of Government Relations, Anchorage School
District, said currently, Anchorage has three funding communities:
Eagle River, Girdwood, and the Anchorage bowl. He asked if under
SB 233 Eagle River would still be considered a separate funding
community. DUANE GUILEY acknowledged that it would.
Number 125
DONNA EMERSON, the mother of two children who are in their seventh
year of using the Centralized Correspondence Study program,
testified from Funter Bay. Speaking to SB 62 and the portion that
relates to how centralized correspondence is funded, she said there
is widespread concern among the families on this program that the
secondary portion of the program needs some strengthening in order
to continue to meet a student's needs. At present, the
correspondence staff is providing services to more students with
fewer dollars than any other public school in the state. She urged
that the committee allow SB 62 to strengthen the Centralized
Correspondence Study program in a conservative manner.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS announced that the teleconference testimony
was concluded.
There being no further business to come before the committee, the
meeting was adjourned at 10:50 a.m.
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